UMC Week 3
“I think ‘Don’t Stop Believing’ was vocally and guitaristically* ambitious,” (Judge David Patrone on why Baytown should have considered not playing a Journey song).
And the winner is….
The Untouchables!
Congratulations you well-oiled machinists.
Well, once again, it was fairly easy to choose a winner last night. The judges all agreed, and pretty much everybody with whom I spoke did as well, The Untouchables should’ve won, though, I do remember hearing a few boos in the crowd throughout the night. Indeed, after the comments I made about Funky Pox, I’m quite certain somebody yelled, “Get a clue!”
I must say, that comment that stabbed me right in the heart. As soon as I arrived home last night, I opened my AMG Official Guide to Music, to see if I could find a clue inside and, as luck would have it, right there on page 198, I did find one: The clue was “boysenberries.”
Of course, I still don’t know the answer but, thanks to Heckler-X, at least I have a clue.
Patrone had some hecklers himself last night. I got a kick out of how he handled them. For instance, when he said to the Diamond is Forever singer, who at one point in the set adopted his namesake’s persona, “If you’re going to impersonate Neil Diamond, you need to work on your New York accent,” he received a chorus of boos. “That’s ok,” Patrone responded, “I can take that – coming from a bunch of Californians.”
Good Stuff D.P., as former New Yorker, I appreciated that.
On the way home from the show, my wife, Alicia (Judge #2) and I were talking about the heckling and booing and whether it was appropriate. We concurred that, while at times heckling can make us uncomfortable, it is part of the show, part of the fun, and that hey, if we can dish it out we damn well better be able to take it.
So, not that you need our permission, but you certainly have our blessing to heckle if you disagree with our comments. Just do me a favor though and try to say something interesting, funny or unique instead of, “Get a clue.”
Now go forth and heckle righteous!
One more thing before getting into the scoring. I caught wind of another conspiracy theory last night. Apparently, there are some grumblings about an unsavory preference toward The Untouchables.
Yup, there are people out there who think the contest is rigged.
Do you folk have nothing better to do than invent conspiracy theories about an utterly benign, event?
There are three reasons I find this hilarious. They are: 1. David Patrone, 2. Alicia Champion and 3. Ed Decker
That, anyone can question the integrity of these judges is beyond me:
David Patrone is a former Marine staff Sergeant fer crissake, as in Semper Fi numbnuts! Look it up.
Alicia Champion is the co-director of SD IndieFest which is all about – independent art and music, global activism, sticking it to the man, rebellion against all things hollow, fake or cheap and loosening the corporate death grip on the individual. These are the causes that comprise the fleshy substance that is her heart and I know, as her friend, colleague, and all-round admirer, that Alicia Champion would sooner slice off her kneecaps and use them as serving bowls than sell out her soul to a corporate conspiracy such as what has been alleged.
As for me, well, I have a price, but Viejas can’t afford it right now.
So, to all your UMC Conspiracy Theorists out there…
pfffffffft!
Anyhoo, about last night’s show. More and more people have been asking to share the scoresheets with you and while it is a lot of extra work, I know I would want to see them if I were in your shoes as well. So here are the numbers. I will break them down into four categories:
1. Audience Applause (to determine which bands the crowd liked best).
2. Band Totals (to determine each band’s scores with crowd noise).
3. Judges Individual Rankings (to determine how each judge ranked each band without crowd noise).
4. Judges Compiled Ranking (to determine the overall ranking without applause meter).
AUDIENCE APPLAUSE
(For which bands the crowd cheered loudest)
The winner of the audience applause category (Db meter) was Diamond is Forever (113.2db).
After that it was:
Funky Pox (108.6db)
The Untouchables (106.7db)
The Bayton Band (102.4db)
Followed by Politik (99.4db).
(Click here to learn how crowd response is factored)
BAND TOTALS
(Each band’s grades, including audience participation. These are the official scores)
1st Place – The Untouchables (257)
Breakdown
Ed – 88.5
Alicia – 86
Dave – 82.5
Notes: It looks like I was the Monty Hall judge on this performance, giving The Untouchables a 9.5 on just about every section of the SHOWMANSHIP category, a 9.0 in both sections of the MUSICAL ABILITY category and a 9.5 in the PARTICIPATION/RESPONSE section (not to be confused with the CROWD NOISE/APPLAUSE via db reading section).
Alicia awarded The Untouchables a total of 86, with 9.0’s in every category and stingy, old Dave Patrone gave them primarily 8.0’s.
2nd Place – Diamond is Forever (240)
Breakdown
Ed – 90
Alicia – 77
Dave – 73
Notes: Hmm, it looks like I was the Monty Hall judge again, giving Diamond is Forever the highest numbers by far; mostly 8.5’s in the SHOWMANSHIP categories and 9.0’s in the MUSICAL ABILITY categories whereas the other judges gave 7’s and 8’s (Patrone gave a 6.0 in the vocal section).
3rd Place – The Baytown Band (238)
Ed – 84
Alicia – 77.5
Dave – 76.5
Notes: Here we go again.
Monty Hall: “Tell them what they’ve won Jay!”
“Ok contestants, take a look at what’s behind curtain number one because you’ve won … A new car!”
Sheesh.
I wonder why I’m so pointistically* generous? Maybe it’s because I’m the non-musician of the group and less likely to notice technical mistakes. Or maybe I just have a different idea about the values of the scores. For instance, I think in terms of school grades. ( 9.0 is an A, 8.0 is a B, 7.0 is a C etc.). However, I suspect the other two judges think in terms of 5.0 being an average score (C) because it is the halfway point between 1-10. I’ll have to ask them.. Dave? Alicia? Your thoughts please?
4th – Funky Pox (201.5)
Ed – 72.5
Alicia – 70.5
Dave – 58.5
Notes: *sigh* Anyone see a pattern yet?
5th Place – Politik (166)
Ed – 59.5
Alicia – 56
Dave – 50.5
Notes: So, it’s official – I’m the Monty Hall judge, Alicia is the play-it-safe, judge, and Dave is the dick judge.
JUDGES’ INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS
(How the judges ranked the bands without factoring audience participation)
Dave Patrone:
1. The Untouchables – 77.5
2. Baytown band – 74.5
3. Diamond is Forever – 63
4. Funky Pox – 51
5. Politik – 50.5
Alicia Champion:
1. The Untouchables – 81
2. Baytown band – 75
3. Diamond is Forever – 67
4. Funky Pox – 63
5. Politik – 56.5
Monty Hall (a.k.a. Ed Decker):
1. The Untouchables – 83.5
2. Baytown band – 81.5
3. Diamond is Forever – 80
4. Funky Pox – 62.5
5. Politik – 59.5
COMBINED BAND RANKINGS WITHOUT CROWD NOISE
(The order of winning bands had crowd noise not been a factor)
1. Untouchables
2. Baytown
3. Diamond is Forever
4. Funky Pox
5. Politik
WHAT WE LEARNED
So what do these numbers tell us about the scoring of UMC 3 Week 3?: They tell us that The Untouchables were clearly the best band; they tell us that, as of now, the judges are pretty much on the same page as far as band ranking goes (though they also tell us that I should lay off the new car giveaways); they tell us that Diamond and Funky Pox did an excellent job promoting their show; that audience applause can make a difference; and that future contestants should endeavor to rally their fanbase and instruct them to yell very loud when it’s time.
What the numbers didn’t tell us but we knew anyway is that this UMC thing is shaping up to be one of the hottest, funnest, excellentest events around and I absolutely cannot wait till next week.
MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
1. It should be noted that the singer and the bass player for Politik have been with the band for only two weeks. Come back next year guys, after you get a bit more stage time under your belts.
2. It should also be noted that the drummer from Politik had thrown a bra on stage during the Diamond is Forever set. Well done Drummer From Politik!
3. Cell phone conversation overheard in the hall outside bathroom: “Yeah Michelle, we just got off stage. We were great, but the judges sucked. They don’t know anything.”
*GLOSSARY
Guitaristically: – pronounced gih-tar-iss-tick-a-lee. (adverb)
1. That which pertains to guitars.
2. Of and according to the family of stringed instruments known as the guitar.
3. A coinage from the infamous marine staff sergeant, turned ski instructor, turned jazz crooner, turned dickish music contest judge.
Pointistically – pronounced point-tiss-tick-a-lee (adverb)
1. That which pertains to a grading system
2. Of and according to the family of sharp objects (such as arrows, or darts)
3. A coinage from the freelance writer, turned alcoholic, turned porn actor, turned new-car-awarding music contest judge.
Ed Decker
Judge #3
www.edwindecker.com
Baytown or what ever and the winning band were good but the Diamond band had the best “show” feel to them, I felt like I was at a concert
Imagine not being able to listen to the Beatles, instead being given a musical analysis of the songs. “Yesterday begins on the tonic and progresses… etc.”
Sorry Ed but that’s what’s this review is like. I wanna hear the drama, not the analysis!
Actually, “Yesterday” starts on the 2 and then goes to the tonic. Melodically anyway.
Ha ha! That’s great, I was writing that thinking, :::I better not fake an analysis of Yesterday, someone will call me out:::
So what did you think of the bands, now we know the score:(
And is the Untouchables a tribute band or a cover band:)
just a joke
I see your point Dave, but I wanted to try something a little different. Besides, you weren’t there last night. I worry about the people who WERE there. Do they really need a rehashing of what they already saw and heard? I think the UMC fans, were getting sick of my, “and then the band played this song, and then the band played that song” descriptions of the evenings. I could be wrong. We shall see in a few moments. Peace homey.
Dude, the Untouchables are a tribute band, to ColdPlay, and I thought the singer needed a lot of work, but as I said, he’s new so he deserves some wriggle room.
Did you also hate the format I used?
Untouchables were GOOOOODD!!!!! Flawless, they really sounded great, a pro level band and deserved to win. The Diamond band though sounded great and put on an amazing show, I hope they play at Viejas some time soon, EVERYONE had their tables candles up in the air for the third song and the guy who played Niel Looked and sounded like him. I am hiring the Untouchables for my wedding for sure lol they were just soooo good, but I would pay to see the Diamond band.
Ed! What are you smoking? Your reply to Dude…”the Untouchables are a tribute band, to ColdPlay…”??????? COLDPLAY???
First of all Dude, the “Untouchables” are a COVER BAND!! “Politik” is a TRIBUTE BAND (to Coldplay) as is “Diamond Is Forever” (to Neil Diamond…duh).
As for the format? I like seeing how the judges judged. A bit too much info, but fun to see. Especially the DB reading. I also like the reviews too. Especially on those rare occasions when I miss the contest. So Ed… just give us everything!!
~~Peace
to quote from the “introduction” blog “Every Monday night, the day after each round, I will post comments about the contest, performance breakdowns, reasons why we, the judges, voted the way we did, and other general information and analysis. The purpose of this blog is for the bands, the fans and the judges to connect, to have a forum to express opinions, talk some smack, and squeeze out a few sour grapes when necessary. That’s why we call it interactive. So please don’t hesitate to drop some comments on us. We ask that you please refrain from profanity, abusive or threatening language and out-and-out hostility. This doesn’t mean you can’t say it like it is, but any post that is out of line will be removed. You can also use this forum to ask general questions about judging, booking, and where you can find the judges home addresses so you can toilet paper their front yards.”
That is all we are looking for. And or course it is for those of use that can’t make every weekend but are interested in the outcome.
Thanks for your time, I hope they pay you enough to put up with all this.
Allright Colleen, take a pill. It was an innocent mistake. Just got my wires crossed there for a moment.
Dude, I stand by this recent accounting of last night’s performance and believe it stands up to the mission statement of this blog. You, and others, may not like the format and style I have chosen to use to give “performance breakdowns and general analysis” but it is at least in accord with the mission statement.
I guess I thought y’all were going to like it. People were asking for this to happen, AND, I figured you were getting sick of my “and then this happened, and then that happened” descriptions, so I figured i’d mix it up and give you something different. But, judging by the reaction, and how few people are commenting, I think you’re probably right. Back to the old format next week.
peace
Well, I’ll eat crow and say that we definitely have shown that audience participation is a pretty big deal in this competition. I thought it would be less of a factor but clearly that isn’t the case. Let that be a hint to the bands coming up. Even if you get an extra ten people in the room it can make a tremendous deal of difference.
DP
I consider 5.0 to be an average score. It’s not an insult to get a 5 but you’d pretty much have to be a world-class musician to get a 9 on my sheet. Although, if Ed is going to get all giddy and keep giving those super high marks for everyone I’m going to have to bring my numbers up so that they matter mathematically. The scale goes from 1-10 not from 6-10. The thing is, I examine every one of these musicians with the same barometer that I evaluate my band, musicians or bands who play for my productions. If you want a 10 on your instrument, you better be as good a singer as Kurt Elling or Sarah Vaughan; a pianist like McCoy Tyner or Geoffrey Keezer; a bassist like Bob Magnusson or Flea. If you don’t know who those guys are then you’re probably not even in the running for an 8. Don’t get all butt hurt cause I only gave you an 8 for your vocals. There are days I wouldn’t even give myself an 8 for vocals and I’m a jazz singer who can actually scat Charlie Parker lines. If you want a 10 for your stage show, you better bring it like Prince or James Brown. But he young James Brown, not the guy who sweat all over me in the front row of 4th&B a couple of years ago…
Standpoint: I like to imagine I have a client who asked me for one of these bands and I’m trying to determine who is the best for the client, what kind of mistakes are they making and whether or not the client is going to notice them.
Some of these bands don’t even look like they prepared for this show. Dancers are still practicing their choreography, trying to pretend they aren’t looking sideways the dancer next to them to see where the hell they’re supposed to be. WTF?
This contest is for $20,000! You better bring it and quit with all that amateur stuff. I know exactly what I’m looking at and the scores will reflect.
David
The “Dick” Judge
In my opinion, neither of us is right or wrong about how we regard the value of the scores. It’s all relevant. All that matters to me, is that we are on the same page. I suggest we talk to Alicia about it and come up with a value system that is universal and consistent. If Alicia doesn’t drop by on the blog, we can just chat with her next Sunday before the show, make a decision, and then go with whatever we decide from now… UNTIL ETERNITY.
P.S. I NEVER give 10’s, not because I’m being a hardass, but just because of my general worldview that there’s no such thing as perfection.
Ed
The Monty Hall Judge
“no such thing as perfection”? I’m surprise to hear you say that!!
re. changing the scoring system… not in the middle of this contest! Aren’t all bands supposed to be on a level “playing field”? If you change the scoring “mid-stream” aren’t you opening up a new conspiracy theory??? Come on Ed… you are the one who so loudly stated above that you judges are judging fairly and without bias! Now you want to “alter” the scoring? Who do you have coming up that you want to insure???? huh?????
~~Peace
Hey guys, don’t worry about it. That is why there are three judges. Bring your own individuality and rating system to the table. You all had valuable stuff to say.
David, you had a computer there.. Why not plug in a mic and record the judges comments and stick them on a podcast for the world to enjoy? Plus then I could hear you scat the solo from Bloomdido for us…
Personally watched the whole night and I think you were right on with comments and looking at the scores those ratios look pretty fair.
Here is a lurking observers take, short and sweet…well maybe not. I feel like writing today.
Politik… pretty unrehearsed. Was surfing and saw their ad for a singer a few days ago so I don’t know if this is the guy they got or if they are still looking. And I agree with Alicia, no capo on the Variax, or if you do only use it like that. Descent look.
The Untouchables… Wow, it was like a musical explosion! Serpentine Fire, right out of the box! Great classic, great energy. The second song was good, but I’d never heard it and I listen to music a lot. Great musicianship, great vocals and tons of practice. Gonna be hard to beat. Didn’t really like “Ain’t No Other Man”, although she did well, I keep thinking of Christina and that song is her at her best. The latin song, again I didn’t know, but it was smoking hot !!!!! Couldn’t find a real website for these guys, are they a real band or just put together from hot musicians to make some $$ at this event?
Baytown Band…. another talented cover band. Male vocalist probably the best of the night, he wailed. The two girls also excellent. The taller one was great. They all played well. Good cohesive look, the horns were nice. Didn’t care much for Respect although it was great to see a cover singer do it in the original key. Hell, Aretha stopped doing that 10 years ago.
A word to Alicia, the judge “trained at the Berklee school of music to hear mistakes”….. The alto sax is the little one honey, he was playing a tenor sax. It is the bigger one with the little curve at the top. You said you loved his alto playing.
All in all they were good, could have been tighter, but the musicianship was solid. Great guitar tones.
Diamonds are Forever…. These guys were also good. The lead “Neil” character was very convincing and did give a concert show type vibe. Sounded amazing like Neil. My problem is though, I am not a Neil fan so it is a pretty narrow cast band for me.
My thought was that the background people need to get a better visual look. It was kind of a mish mash of housewives and hippies.The guy playing acoustic guitar added a nice texture to the sound.
Funky Pox.. They were OK. I kind of thought a typical B grade lounge act. Absolutely nothing memorable, except the bad guitar sound. Go buy a Strat, and play shorter leads. Alicia was right there. I didn’t “get” the look. If they were going after a retro look, I would have liked to have seen brighter colors. The drummer was a hoot. Song selection was OK, a variety which is what I expected. Vocals just OK. Wouldn’t be bad to listen to if you were out having a beer and not paying too close attention.
Last but not least, the venerable db meter… I always laugh at such things and actually think two items should be adjusted going into further rounds. First, change the weight to 10% to avoid the “packing the house with my fans factor”, and then take the reading with everyone off the dance floor. All of us science geeks know that Db is a ratio and is strongly influenced by distance. Try telling that to a cop raiding your party, I did, it doesn’t work.
Kudos to the sound guys. Talk about a well oiled machine. Only one feedback burst the whole night and that was during the first band. The balance was good for all bands, vocals pretty much out front. Rest of the balance good. My only criticism was the drum sound. It was a bit boomy and out of control. You have a big stage, why not also have a sound shield for the drums? Tune them for a tighter bass sound.
“Packing the house with my fans” factor is what we are going for. It’s definitely an aspect of this competition. Another gratuitous hint to following bands…
I was hoping you wouldn’t let them know about the Db/distance ratio. Clearing the dance floor isn’t going to change anything, the people with fans will still be closer to the stage cause you just cleared them from the dance floor… Especially if they are a good band and lots of people are dancing: so be it. It’s a factor.
As far as Ed’s review at the top…
so I do have a few questions. Did Politik sound like Cold Play? Were their arrangements nice? Dynamics? What songs did Untouchables do? What made them great? I’m sure it was tightness and dynamics but what about knock-your-socks-off players… any stick out? Was the Diamond guy hoky? or pretty slick? did he do the song from Pulp Fiction? “You’ll be a Woman soon” Did any of the bands suck? What was Funky Pox like? Baytown ? What songs did they do or at least what was the genre?
Yeah, I missed out on Sunday night!
On Scoring… As I assumed last year, Each night has the slate wiped clean so it doesn’t matter if you re-evaluate the scale by which you score as long as you’re consistent for that night. This came up because there was a suggestion that previous scores be considered if there are drop outs or a wild card or what ever. (which I think is a bad idea) Personally I would not give scores too high on the scale so that I have room to give a better score for acts that come later. I do have a disagreement with the way the db meter is scored though. I think the scoring scheme doesn’t accurately award points relative to the response, especially if two bands are really close.
I was browsing last year’s blog, some good comments on dynamics and sound. Who leads the dynamics of the performance. Active vs. Passive soundman.
Then I found this gem…
how about small token awards for different categories (excluding the finalists) like best female band, best tribute, etc. Decide on the number of “extra” awards, five for example, then make up the actual winning categories after round one.
You could invite the winners to the finals event and present these between acts. This would grow your audience to include fans of those acts. If you were doing the video thing you could play back parts of their performance prior to giving the award.
Nancy added… awards for wierdest costumes, loudest audience dB readings (and/or loudest performance!), overcoming most technical challenges onstage… oh, and I especially liked the suggestion about best female band.
I think that’s a great idea except that we barely have enough time to get our comments together after the band has played, let along start adding things to judge on. I think it’s something we could consider for next year. It could be an interesting thing to add on.
Colleen – I’m really beginning to think you were a hardcore Acid-head in the 60’s because those brain cells of yours aren’t all firing off now are they?
Firstly, I’m not changing the scoring “system” in midstream, I’m tightening the judges approaches to the weight of the numbers, to make sure we are all on the same page. The system remains the same. As Dave said, it really has no bearing on each night since each night “the slate is wiped clean so it doesn’t matter if you re-evaluate the scale as long as you’re consistent for that night.”
(Exactly Dave, why are you always the voice of reason around here?)
But Collen, to set off another conspiracy theory about this is not only ridiculous, it’s offensive.
This has no bearing on giving any one band an advantage, it has to do with making the judges numbers consistent, so if and when I post them on the blog (something I would never do if there was a conspiracy) they will make more sense to the reader. But, as Voice-of-Reason Dave explained, it will not change which band wins on any given night.
Furthermore, if this was an attempt to give any band an advantage, why on Earth would I mention it here?! The whole point of this blog is to keep everything out in the open, to minimize these sorts of unfounded accusations, so please don’t make me re-think that position. Part of the fun of this blog is the open doors policy.
The King has spoken
I would like to say the drummer for Funky Pox was very groovy and shagadelic.
Hi guys, just a couple things…
1) the comment from Alicia to the first band about being off “7 BPM’s”…? Incredibly pretentious – some of LA’s best studio sound engineers couldn’t tell you how many “BPM’s” a song was off by – ridiculous. It’s a good idea to refrain from that type of comment in the future Alicia; talking people like a conceded Berkley Music grad generally doesn’t go over well.
2) Since seeing all of these competitions, it seems that the audience applause should be an even smaller percentage of scoring…at least until the finals. Even strong fans of a band can’t/won’t come all the way out to Viejas on a (school/work night) from places like North County etc. The Showmanship & Music Ability are what is important to hire for a potential client(as Dave P. described), not how many friends showed up.
It’s possible that you haven’t had a lot of experience with Jazz musicians but I can tell you that I know plenty of musicians who can tell you within 2 bpm where a song is and how far you are off from the original. It’s a fairly common trait to have among recording Jazz professionals, as is “perfect pitch.” Most of the pro Jazz musicians I work with either have perfect pitch or are very close. It may have sounded pretentious to you; there’s nothing we can do about how you feel; however, the reality is that these are common traits among music professionals and it’s how we would talk to each other when evaluating a composition or a performance.
If a studio engineer couldn’t tell you what the BPMs were on a song within 7 BPM, that engineer would not be one of the best, not even close. I’d even question calling them an “engineer.” I don’t care who he or she has worked for. There are a lot of untalented, “engineers” out there who just happened to hook up with the right artist and got a rep for being “one of LA’s best”
Don’t believe the hype.
Alicia is not “conceited” she’s just that good
Besides, I think she said the song was done about 7BPM too fast. That’s a completely legitimate observation. That sounds like something I would hear a good band leader tell his band.
Larry, that was an excellent post by the way. It’s nice to have another voice of reason around here. You, me and the 2 Daves should get along just fine.
I would like to respond to yours and John M’s complaint about the crowd noise factor.
Yes, I agree, the downside is, that there is a “popularity contest” factor, and the “packing-the-room-with-your-fans” factor. But keep in mind, there is no perfect system.
The reason I like the system we have and why I have been lobbying to keep the crowd factor as high as it is, is for several reasons.
1. A bands popularity, and draw are often a direct result of the bands skills. Not just musicianship, (though there is that) but networking and promotion – all of which are crucial to any one bands survival, and – like it or not – an important part of what it means to be in a band.
2. From the start, we’ve wanted this show to be interactive. We started the blog because we want the audience to feel like they are involved. That their comments matter, that UMC is listening. Having the crowd volume matter as much as it does, really gives people a feeling of involvement. I LOVE that about this show. You can sense it in the room, the excitement and energy. They can’t wait to get up there and holler their brains out for their favorite band. I think UMC’s interactivity is a large reason why the show is as much of a success as it is.
3. In the end, the judges are just three people with three opinions. I don’t care how qualified we think we are, our opinions aren’t any more valid than anybody elses. Having crowd response count as much as it does weakens the scoring power of the judges, which I think is a good thing.
4. The bands are that much more motivated to pack the club. When is that ever a bad thing? A packed club is good for EVERYBODY.
It’s good for the bar, for obvious reasons,and the casino and the radio station,and the advertisers. Certainly it’s good for ALL the bands. It’s good for the judges cuz it makes it more fun. It’s good for the crowd to because the more the merrier, right? Not to mention, if we weren’t getting a good draw, they would/could cancel UMC and that would REALLY suck. The only people a packed club is not good for is the cleanup crew. From firsthand experience, I know, it sucks for them.
Bottom line is this, getting people to the show is a part of the contest, every bit as much as playing in tune. Every band is aware of this coming in so in that sense, it’s fair to everyone. Sure, it puts some bands at a disadvantage (such as a band coming from L.A.), but there is no rule you could make that doesn’t put somebody at a disadvantage.
It’s a contest, in contests there are always people in disadvantaged positions. Take the set times, which is chosen at random. Somebody will have to play first set and first is the worst position to be in, alas, somebody has to play it, so it is what it is.
Dave M., you’re always the voice of reason around here, can I get a witness?!
Ed
The Monty Hall Judge
I think the crowd response should be less of a factor because it does favor San Diego area bands and gives bands from farther away a disadvantage. I also understand that the whole thing is about selling drinks and beer, so the crowd coming is important to the venue.
Just make it less important next year, the bands will still bring as many fans.
I think it helps the bands when the judges critique each member and also a band as a whole. Usually the one in the band that sucks the most thinks they are the best, it helps to hear about a breakdown of each member.
Thanks again!
I’ve said before that as musicians we understand how critique can stifle the creative process and we’re not trying to single out people and make them feel bad or squash their progress as a learning musician.
DP
I don’t have a photographicstical memory, so these aren’t exact quotes, but some of my favorite comments from Mr. Decker went something like this: “Lady Marmalade is sort of like the Stairway to Heaven of funk and Respect is the Freebird of soul.” For that reason I thought Diamond is Forever had the biggest funistic factor for song selection. The Untouchables were the best musicalistacally. Funky Pox seemed to have the most fanaticalistic fans.
Anger is a Gift placed second last year. They are from Los Angeles. Don’t get me wrong, we got the short end of the stick on the crowd meter last year, I’m just saying.
But you make a good point Tom, if you’re good enough, as Anger most certainly was, you’re going to get a good crowd response, AND/OR high enough scores from the judges that it can overcome a poor crowd response and take home a win. I’m sorry gang, I appreciate all your input on this, but I don’t see this aspect of the game changing anytime soon, and if they ever did talk about changing, I would argue against it.
Speaking of Anger, did you hear why they dropped out? I’m curious to know and never got around to asking Casey.
The guitar player broke his ankle.
First of all this is the first blog I have ever been a part of – so bear with me.
I was there Sunday night to support one of the first bands that played, and not the Diamond is Forever band that I am commenting on here –
that was the first time I have seen them perform, also
I have been to a number of the UMC Challenge nights in the past 3 years and have been to Viejas for other entertainment too. (So what? LOL)
Maybe the judges starting with Patrone were being booed and heckled to the extent and sheer volume that the audience did on Sunday
because we just didn’t agree! But what do we know? We haven’t been to Berkley after all. LOL!
The applause db listed above only verified what we all saw and heard – that the Diamond band WAS the audience winner no doubt — db meter or no db meter.
BTW that level of appreciation for a band and disagreement with the judges from the audience was something that I have not seen that loudly or to that extent before- the audience made it clear that THEY DID NOT AGREE with the judges— I never saw a crowd quite that riled at UMC 1 or 2 or for that fact with any of the other “judging” they did Sunday night!
Have any of the judges asked themselves WHY there was such a contrast between them and the audience? To be honest -I doubt they have –or will – or will do anything but jokingly dismiss the audience and tag them as hecklers and ’splain their methods like above… too bad, it would be a better contest and a lot more fun for the audience if they did!
– may be DP got booed because the Diamond guy pulls off this really convincing- hot set – professional and polished -a true showman’s performance -that was apparently well prepared and rehearsed with this absolutely rockin’ band on top of it –and he picks on two lines of spoken dialog… wow!
I have been to many live performances in my life – A list bands through to bar bands – hundreds of concerts and I think that gives me some idea of what I am saying, even though I didn’t go to Berkley (LOL again)
You are justifying yourself by making a huge assumption that the band brought in all these people that were cheering for them and booing you – something you couldn’t possibly know unless you polled the audience. What a good argument FOR A BAND to NOT BRING PEOPLE! That comment was arrogant and disrespectful to the audience.
Getting a clue as to why you all got booed!?
Are you going look at what happened on Sunday seriously? Or are you going to obfuscate it with more sarcasm?
May be Vejas should consider that if it is expected that the bands take seriously, show respect and take into consideration the judges critique -
that the judges take into consideration and show a little respect to the audience and their opinion and pull back on the arrogance and sarcasm a touch???
…you may know Vaughn and Parker and Gillespe – Jazz snobs think they have a corner on it all musically – yeah I know who the heck Charlie Parker and Sarah Vaughn is and yes they are on the long list of luminaries and great musicians – but so what??? I don’t particularly like or listen to jazz… I am sure now at least in DP’s eyes I am a musical neophyte because of that opinion and know nothing.
The fact is that I was there to support another band but this Diamond band was better – plain and simple. and without a doubt the best band and best performance of the evening. Like someone said above, I would hire the Untouchables for my wedding band – they’re but I would BUY a ticket to see this Diamond band in concert again.
OK so I am a Neil Diamond fan as well as Coldplay and Queen, Led Zepplin, DMB and Steely Dan, Pink Floyd the Beatles fan and soooo many others.
So what?
Finally where were that Jacktones?? They were the other band listed on the display board and on the web site?
Why did the Untouchables appear out of nowhere to replace them at the last minute, it was never even commented on and many people wondered why?
Finally, the fact that Patrone plans to shift his voting methods by now giving bands lower points – to reduce the impact of your voting methods is just ASTONISHING! I can not believe he actually publicly revealed that he would do that! It appears that DP feels his opinion is the only right one This tells me that he not only disrespects the audiences opinion as shown but the other judges as well. Seems that he really has a need to be in control of the outcome of the voting! Very disturbing…
Here’s what Jim McInnes said on FaceBook…
got home from Viejas UMC a couple of hours ago. Of the first three bands (of five) to play in this week’s Ultimate Music Challenge, the second band, The Untouchables (not the band from Silver Lake,) were jaw-droppingly fantastic! Their killer Tito Puente-inspired finale was like adrenaline to my soul! You had to be there. I don’t know who won tonight’s competition, but I guarantee… the competition was fierce!
Jim is a musician and long time music DJ. I believe there is some weight behind his opinions on music. He is not an employee of Viejs or affiliated with the judges. I have never heard him express an opinion of any other act at the UMC. When I read his comment I knew the Untouchables had to have played a killer set. I have no doubt that Diamonds was a polished act too but considering Jim’s reaction I’m confident they deserved the win.
The Untouchables didn’t come out of nowhere… they were scheduled to play later in the competition so no foul there.
As far as judge voting, There is no talk of changing methods rather, a rethink of scale. This is illustrated better in the Spinal Tap movie during the “one louder” scene. Perhaps roman numerals? a “Star” rating? Thumbs up/ Thumbs down. It’s more of a semantics argument really.
Any references to my impartiality are understood, I am after all a controversial character and my remarks are to entertain; however, I assure you, as an artist, a teacher and an honorable man. I will make the most valid, technical and accurate assessment of each band that I can. I don’t “penalize” bands for not being jazz musicians, I’m just comparing them to the best musicians in the world; improvisational virtuosi on their instruments or vocals. I study music and musicians constantly so the opinion of a layperson on my ability to assess a musician is amusing; however, almost every actual musician on this blog has agreed with our results and that should tell you something. I love rock bands and “new wave” bands and funk bands. I grew up listening to and playing all this stuff in Philly. I am not prejudiced, in fact I do a great deal of research each week so that I can judge with a more educated ear and give each band credit for the effort they put into their performance.
1. We posted last week that the jackstones had to pull out and that the untouchables had replaced them. Things happen, bands have to cancel, people break ankles or get the Swine Flu. Vocalists quit just before the gig or whatever. We don’t even bother to ask and I’m sure it will happen again. No controversy or conspiracy, the Untouchables have all been playing with each other for years, though maybe under different names (btw this is common in this industry)
2. I only gave the Neil Diamond impersonator a hard time about his accent because he was actually impersonating Neil Diamond when he started saying how long it took him to write each song (as if he were actually Neil Diamond). There’s nothing wrong with that BUT in that case I would have expected him to actually have Neil’s accent (or something close). Neil grew up in Brooklyn, NY. Neil has a distinctive speaking accent as will as a singing style. If he had said, “I’m Joe Shmoe singing Neil Diamond” then fine, no accent. If he had been impersonating Louis Armstrong would you have expected to hear him start talking like he’s a surfer from Santa Monica?
3. You misunderstood what I was saying about scores. I was going to start awarding HIGHER ones so that my scores wouldn’t hurt the bands in relation to the ones Ed was giving. Each score is relevant for the night and they are thrown away. We start all over again each night. However we score, it’s relevant only to that night and changing it wouldn’t “change” anything that has gone before. I’m opposed to posting the individual scores because they are in relation to that night and I know people are going to start comparing our scores over different weeks. In advance I will say that my scores from week to week are NOT RELEVANT TO EACH OTHER!!
4. Crowd Opinion: La Crema sells a lot more bottles of wine than Robert Mondavi’s “Opus One” but that doesn’t make it a better wine. I’m sure that many a raucous fan would jump up and say, “Woohoo! Boone’s Farm Baby!!!” but that doesn’t change the fact that the Untouchables put on a much higher quality musical performance than did the other bands. Even the bands agree with our assessment. Boone’s farm is great!!! Gimme MORE!!! but it ain’t Opus One and I know the difference…
Diamonds had a great presentation and show and response, I believe I voted them the best in those departments; but, by the middle of the first song, they lost me musically. To win this, you gotta have the whole package. Just cause someone puts up some pretty lights and plays some mellifluous, pleasing strings on the keyboard for twenty minutes doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore that out-of-tune guitar, singer or when the girls started clapping on the 1 and 3 and then switched to the 2 and 4. This is where bands are going to hear how they can be better and I’ll tell them because I think it will ultimately help them to get better.
BTW, I was heckled for typing into my computer during the performances. I use my computer to take notes and save them for later. As a musician OBVIOUSLY I don’t have to be staring at the band to hear what they are doing. Laypersons may not be aware that ear training involves identifying instruments and pitches without the benefit of vision.
My reply to [DanTheMusicFan] is Maybe “The Diamond Band” was Great
but every “Musician” knows to be able to “Copy” some of the Best
Bands,with the best[Vocalist/Guitarist/Rhythm sections]and be Good is
really something! The harder the music Originally Written is
“The harder i believe The Judges should Judge The Outcome”
Even though someone[in your opinion]copied it perfect.
How Hard was that “Copied” Music acompared to the other Music that
other Bands had to “Pull Off”
We all have Respect for Neil but we all know his Music is’nt as hard
as “Floyd” or “Zepp” whom you mentioned…
OK my wife says I wrote a letter or a book LOL not a blog comment – sorry I have just been bothered by what I experienced on Sunday only exasperated by this blog!
I was in one of the bands that did not win 1st place..and here are my comments. Judges, good job. It’s difficult to be totally diplomatic at times, but you did the process justice. Alicia I thought you were perhaps at times bending over a tad backwards in this regard, but I thought you offset DP’s rather frank analysis in a good way. I think DP was right on. I have a lot of respect for his own ability and talent and this gives credence in my mind. Edwin, I liked the different twist you lend to the process. So overall, well done. (I’m not sure I would have called some of the hecklers “bitches” over the mic, but that’s just me) Comment to Viejas staff, you guys are very professional. Tech crew, good job on the transitions. FOH, I was in the first few rows of tables, and the lead vocals were low in the mix during David Sherrys Diamonds are Forever set, and maybe this applies to the other singers as well. LIGHTING: Why David was in the dark for most of his set is a mystery to me.
I have run sound for years and felt that the vocals were not out front enough overall. Overall the bass for all bands was a bit mushy and indistinct, the guitarist for the Untouchables, stage left was buried, could not hear him. The horns for Baytown were buried halfway through Chris’s solo. The rack toms were WAY hot, louder than the vocals. The drum kit overall had a great sound, just too hot. This was very prevelant during the Funky Pox set.
Conspiracy theory? I think some just don’t dig the competition. My two cents. Overall, good job everyone.
Hey Justme – thanks for the kind words. A small correction, I don’t think I said “bitches” on the microphone,, nor was it aimed at hecklers. I’m cool with heckling.
I wrote it on my blogpost, and it was aimed at people who claim the judges are corrupt, and the competition is rigged, which is a far more offensive insult than “bitches” could ever be.
Just a large correction, you certainly did say “bitches” on the microphone, Ed, during the Funky Pox judges comments. Not cool.
Yeah , I heard it too. Bitches it was
But I liked it, it was kinda quiet too. I think only the ones listening heard it 
Hi this is David the Diamondhearted (LOL)
Ditto on most of what “justme” said above, and hey “justme” it was great meeting you and sharing a dressing room. BTW! Getting to meet and mingle with these other great musicians and hanging out with the other bands while waiting our turn to go on stage was really cool and part of what made it a great night for us!
Judges good job and thanks for bringing your time, energy, experiences and opinions to UMC 3. I agreee with “justme” again
about being nicer to the audience, hey! they are our bread and butter!
The band and I were proud to take the stage at Vejas and want to thank the audience for giving it up for us, we were truly moved that you “got us, you really got us”! Thanks to the Viejas Staff and tech crew it was a treat working with such a professional, well oiled and friendly bunch people. Thank you again.See ya on the road!
Dear DantheMusicFan:
First of all, the level of “disagreement for the judges” wasn’t anything close to some of the other nights in previous UMC’s. I would say, on the Judges Contempt-o-Meter, the angry and/or dissatisfied reactions we received on Sunday ranked somewhere in the middle.
I can tell you some real horror stories about some of those nights, the worst probably being the Finals of UMC 1, when we announced Cash’d Out as the winner over Lady Dottie. That got REAL ugly.
To your point about the judges not caring what the level of disagreement from the crowd is, you are absolutely right! I don’t care what the crowd thinks. Well I care, I just don’t change my vote because of it.
My opinions are my opinions and it doesn’t matter if everyone on the planet disagrees, I’m not going to change my opinion because of it.
If I did, wouldn’t that be a lot like a politician, making his decisions based on what kind of popularity he will receive rather than what he truly believes in his heart?
That said, When you have 3 judges, all with entirely different music perspectives and backgrounds, and a legendary local rock radio icon, and the majority of people in the audience, and a ton of bloggers all agreeing that The Untouchables were the best band of the night – well I’d say it was you that weren’t listening to other’s opinions, not me.
Whatever, I don’t care if you disagree with me. Just don’t tell me i’m wrong about my opinion and should consider changing it to appease the audience.
Also, ask yourself this… Do you honestly believe it would be any different with different judges? No chance! No matter which judges you put in those chairs they will receive their fair share of boos from the crowd. Because you can’t please everybody. Also keep in mind that while, yes, we often receive boos, that doesn’t mean that everyone in the crowd agrees with the booers. I can guarantee you, there are people out there who are in total agreement with us even when the rest of the room is going nuts with contempt. You just don’t hear from the agreeers cuz THEY AGREE. It’s the squeaky wheel syndrome. You only hear from the discontented.
2. “Like someone said above, I would hire the Untouchables for my wedding band – but I would BUY a ticket to see this Diamond band in concert again.”
Um, Dan, I think you have it backwards. If you hired The Untouchables for your wedding, you’d probably be spending several thousand dollars, yet a ticket to see Diamond is Forever will set you back, 20 bucks tops.
3. “Finally, the fact that Patrone plans to shift his voting methods by now giving bands lower points – to reduce the impact of your voting methods is just ASTONISHING! I can not believe he actually publicly revealed that he would do that!”
Yeah, Um, Dan – it was me, not DP that said that, which tells me you are not really reading/paying attention to what’s being said in here. Had you been paying attention you would’ve seen my comment about exactly WHY I mentioned a possible re-approach to scoring values on the blog. I will say it again. Because I want this whole judging thing to be open door policy, so y’all can see and know what we’re doing, so you can be part of the process. Id’ve thought you would applaud us for that, rather than scold.
Also, you seem to not have read, or understood the part about how/why I’m considering a new approach to the numberes. So now I have to say it again:
Because right now it seems a certain number means different things to different judges. For instance, if I give a band a 7, that’s a low C grade in my mind. But if Dave gives a 7, that’s actually a good score, 2 points above average actually.
None of this matters when it comes to who wins. AS long as each judge is consistent within his own scores, the grading will be true. But I still want to be consistent between the judges, for purposes of posting scores on the blog, and just to be consistent for consistence sake. This re-evaluation I am speaking of will have no bearing on who wins in the future, or what happens in the finals because each night is a scoring vacuum, completely irrelevant to the other nights, and is not a new system of scoring.
Nor will it, as you said, “reduce the impact of [the judges] scoring methods.” There is no impact shift here. Impact is exactly the same, because the numbers are only relevant to other numbers on the same scoresheet.
Look man, you’re a first time blogger, so I’ll take it easy on you, but, a word of advice. In the future, make sure you carefully read the comments and posts of the people to whom you want to talk smack. Otherwise you just end up looking ignorant.
actually, Jim McInnes did comment on another band at hte UMC, in an article i found in the san Diego Troubadour he said that rolling the stones were better than the real Rolling Stones. David DID say bitches, i heard him, but those bitches deserved it too. And as a guitarist fot over 40 years, who has perfect pitch, i have NEVER seen anyone who could discern that the G and highE strings were out of tune as Alicia did, she pulled tha same bunco last year, and i think it is compensatory. by the way, it was the G abd b strings that were as you judges say, pitchy. i think baytown band might have won if they had a guitarist who did not choke so badly, that guy butchered several parts, badly, too bad, their vocals were tremendous, dammit! and last but not least, thank you Mr. Patrone for your service to our country, my grandad was a lifer in the USMC, Master Gunnery Sergent, as was my uncle, Semper Fi baby.
First, I didn’t say “bitches” Ed did, though I don’t have any problems with the way Ed expresses himself.
Second, I have most certainly seen people tell guitarists accurately which strings were off, especially when you play a chord. We’re trained to hear each note in the chord and would obviously know when a critical pitch is wrong; then, knowing how to construct that chord, a good guitarist would know which one of your strings was out. First, of course, we might think it was hip and say, “that was cool where you played that Cm7 instead of the CM7″ (until we realized your E string was just flat)
Again, it is common to question the voicing of chords among jazz musicians since we actually listen to the other instrumentalists that are playing with us, rather than running blindly over our own parts that we rehearsed so carefully…
I do agree with everyone on the following. The Untouchables were REALLY GOOD, DIAMOND band was the house favorit and put on the best show, Potlick licked my sweaty uh…the last band I forgot about 10 minutes after they played and Baytown or Bayside was a cheap version of the untouchables. ALSO the house crew who did lighting and sound, BRAVO they were great
forgot to mention the bitches comment, no I heard it and think it was for the pox band at the end, all the ladies were booing and the judge said..” are you done BITCHES?” i thought it was funny anyeways
Bitches, I really, really really don’t remember saying that. Some of you are claiming you heard me say it, others heard Dave say it. I don’t remember EITHER of us saying it. Patrone? You out there? Can you clarify?
I dont know who said it, dont know who is who which one of you is named what but know FOR SURE one of the judges said that..They were being bitches though I mean you guys were really coolnot saying…last band, you sound like a bar band PERIOD and theyr bar groupies that came down just didnt want to hear anything other than YOU GUYS ROCKED so they bood all night and wouldnt let the judges speak when POXY what ever was up for judging. I think you guys did a great job and bottom line, Untouchables deserved to win no doubt in ANYONES mind.
To the Judges: Thanks. You were right on in your comments and we are definitely going to work on those aspects.
To the Other Bands: I am proud of all the talent this city brings. All of you were great in your own way. The Untouchables did kick ass though!
In general: Ed mentioned this too- Our singer and bass player have been with us for 2 weeks. We knew what we were in for but we showed up anyway and gave3 it our best. We believe in honoring a commitment. Our previous vocalist (Ass Martin) left the band because of a never ending PMS cycle and refused to finish out our scheduled gigs. Is there anything worse than doing that to your band??? I think not.
To Ashly: You are now dubbed “7BPM”. I cant believe you said that but I love that you did! In the future, if you happen to be at a show, I will definitely ask for you to click us in!
Finally, to SDguru: The sweaty Uh… That we licked was your Female Nether regions! Try washing next time. I still can’t get the taste out of my mouth!
First of all a note to DantheMusicFan … welcome to the blog! I hope you don’t get scared off, but you need to be able to take the smacks if you participate in this place! I should know! I’ve taken many smacks… mostly from Ed, but I’ve gotten into some heated “discussions” with others as well.
Now my comments to you… It really irks me whenever I have to side with Ed, but what he said just above (blog entry on May 5 at 4:23)(have to be careful about which of Ed’s blog entry I’m agreeing with (ow…ow!)) is all true. OH! OW!! THAT REALLY, REALLY HURTS TO SAY!! Thanks a lot Dan!
But it is what it is… like Ed said (ow…ow!) you didn’t read the blog carefully. All of what Ed said as to your mistakes/misunderstandings is correct (ow…ow!). Ed and I disagree on several issues in both this blog and last year’s blog, so me agreeing (ow…ow!) with him is a giant step for me! Again… thanks a lot Dan! But don’t “shy” away, welcome to this entertainment extension of the UMC! BTW… tell your wife that occasional long blog entries are ok.
It’s just because some of us like to make sure our opinions are clearly stated, and we allow Ed to have his say too. Even when he is wrong! 
Alicia! Wow! First day back in the chair and you are already having barbs thrown at you! Hang in there girl! You have a right to your opinions too, even if they may be wrong at times!
Welcome back girl!
Ed… I have many more things to say to you, especially about that one that rather blasted me for starting up a conspiracy about the scoring system???? Perhaps you should take a bit of your advice you gave to Dan and re-read what I said! But more to you later… gotta go watch the REAL judges on IDOL!
~~Peace
BTW I have to agree with Ed (ow…ow!)again to Larry… Great review of the evening! I agreed with almost everything you had to say.
~~Peace!
I missed Diamond is Forever, and apparently they have a huge fan base and the reviews seem really good, but I did see the other four bands…
While I’m not really a Coldplay fan, I think Politik, with a little more seasoning (I guess some of the players are new to the band) could be really great. They had a good sound; I hope they come back next year.
For you conspiracy theorists out there…The Untouchables is a recent reincarnation of a band that has been around a long time. They were later on the schedule and got moved up when one of other bands cancelled at the last minute. Notably new is the keyboard player and the female vocalists (who tend to vary some anyway). On drums, guitar and bass, this band has some of the best musicians in town. The male lead singer, Leonard Tucker (Google him – I think he is the original voice of the Chargers theme song), is world class, although I couldn’t hear him too well, his vocals sounded back in the mix. I thought the band was really tight, Serpentine Fire was amazing and my favorite song of theirs. Even though I’m not a real Latin music fan, the Latin song was awesome. As for the “show”, the keyboard player’s antics and then the drummer during the Latin song pretty much stole the show. These guys might just be untouchable.
Baytown – I think Baytown’s vocals, lead and harmonies, were the best of any of the bands. I don’t agree with David Patrone about the vocals on the Journey song and the crowd seemed to love it too, but then again I don’t have DP’s keen musical ear. I will say that I would have preferred to hear the male singer sing the whole song. I liked the change of mood with Change is Gonna Come – the band went from wham bam to down home and the two singers really pulled it off. Overall I liked the band a lot, including the horns with matching hair! The singers projected a lot of energy and the male singer was very personable. The band wasn’t as tight, which made TU a tough act to follow. That being said, I would hire either of these bands for my wedding.
Funky Pox – While maybe not a top tier band, I thought these guys were a lot of fun and disagreeing with the judges, I thought they did look like they were having fun also. As a more casual observer and not a music critic, I liked their music, a unique variety and I think they would be a really fun party band.
OK, that’s my two cents. Looking forward to coming out again. I’m really glad Viejas puts on this contest and it looks like the sound and light crew guys do a really good job at putting on the show. Good luck to all the bands!
Did Alicia really critique bpm? Did she also really comment on the G and E strings being out of tune? LOL…sounds like she is really going out of her way to try and sound more musically literate than she actually is. If all Berkley grads have such a combination of insecurity and narcissism, they might want to incorporate a ’social aptitude’ curriculum. For goodness sakes, is she a judge or a middle school know-it-all? I speak as someone who tired of her pompous bs last year as well.
Colleen and Ed, glad to be of service. I was thinking about this and since everyone has an opinion, I’ll throw my dirty hat in the ring as well.
One essential musical element not considered to any great extent was improvisation. There were a couple of “little” solos, but nothing that showed if a band could stretch. At least a couple of members taking more than 8 bars solos.
The best bands (again IMHO) are those who can develop a song’s energy and excitement through some good solo work.
Might be a way to sort out the Xerox machines from the true musical creators down the competition a bit. Like maybe semi finals?
Many of the real greats (some of who played covers like Zeppelin) could take a theme and then build and build it into a personal expression vehicle at a high level. I’ve seen good cover bands do the same.
Or… maybe require an instrumental. If a cover band can do a great and interesting instrumental, keeping the crowd and energy going that would be cool.
Oops, now did the Rolling Stones ever do an instrumental??? I honestly cannot remember.
Ed… Ok I get it about the crowd interaction, it brought up another point I was thinking. Yes, this is a lot of money and bands should bus people here if they need to, and secondly…. for the bands who were not tight, a question…
“How much would you rehearse to get $20000 worth of gigs?” That is how much you should have rehearsed for this one. That is likely the thought process of the Untouchables, (or whatever their current name might be).
A couple of other remembrances, the bass player for Politik was quite good, a stand out in an otherwise lackluster set. And yes, the percussion solo from Untouchables.. fantastic. And it did bug me that I couldn’t remember even one song of the Funky Pox set.
Sounds like ol’ Al from the post above is a frustrated guitarist who must never have made it in a band regardless of the fact he has “perfect pitch” Well babe, practice up and join in the fun. Or do the real perfect pitch of your ax into the trash can. After all isn’t 40 years long enough to still be on the sidelines?
Or… you can just lurk around like me and pretend you know something….
I’ve commented several times on musicians’ ability to improvise. Improvisation gets higher marks on the musical performance score on my judging sheets. We don’t see a lot of it in tribute bands but that’s not a surprise because most of the musicians in the original bands couldn’t improvise so you wouldn’t expect to see it anyway.
Improvisation is difficult and not always appropriate to the type of tunes. I don’t think we should require bands to do anything they don’t normally do. An instrumental version of a tune is purely a matter of taste and most audience members would not dig it anyway. I give them points for NOT doing an instrumental in this case.
BTW Duplicating a difficult solo that was improvised gets noticed but not as much as an actual improvised solo. It really depends on the approach of the band, tribute bands are expected to duplicate the solos (or come up with an obvious improvisation) IT could go either way. Let’s say MOR is doing a tune and the guitarist quotes an improvisation in the middle of an unrelated song that was done by the band that competed before them. Big Points! I would notice that but that’s something Ed might not notice or even care about.
It’s rare to see a cover band really solo because they are working a crowd and a crowd wants to hear the arrangement the way the original was done. Rarely a band will come up with their own take on covers and though it’s refreshing it is definitely not the norm. Sometimes the quirky thing gets noticed though and it might make a difference.
Hi Everybody,
this is my first blog and after reading comments from some of you guys, hopefully I won’t get beat up here. I just wanted to thank the judges for their cool positive comments and for making Sunday a total BLAST!!! It was very cool being backstage and hanging out with a bunch of old friends from many of the other bands. Maybe you guys couldn’t see it from the audience but backstage we were all cheering each other on. Sure we all want to do well in this competition but having fun and wishing our friends well was most definitely priority #1. This town is too small for anything otherwise.
Just a few comments and I’ll be done: First off, the tech crew was just totally PRO!!! AMAZING!! They had us dialed in immediately!! Trust me, that was my biggest concern since we didn’t sound check at all and the first 10 seconds of our opening tune rely heavily on a 4 part vocal harmony. After that opening phrase, I knew we were in great hands. It was all fun from then on. Thank you Viejas staff.
I loved all of the bands, John Gebhardt and his Baytown Band was killing it vocally. Horns were Slammin’!! Diamonds are forever had me crapping my pants after hearing the crowd screaming the way they did. I have to admit, on Sweet Caroline, we were all screaming “SO GOOD, SO GOOD, SO GOOD!!!”. Funky Pox gave us a soul vaccination if you will. I’m still trying to find ways to put some of that drummers moves into my playing. The only question is should we learn P-Funks “Flash Light” at this weeks rehearsal or next weeks. LOL. I unfortunately didn’t get a chance to hear the first band since we we’re back stage trying to hype each other up. That drummer was hilarious before and during the night with the throwing of the bra. Nicely done.
There was a question earlier on wether or not The Untouchables is a thrown together band for the competition or a real band. We are most definitely a real band. Most of us have been playing together in one form or another for the last 15 years. We know each other pretty well and love each other like family. We started this band in February and it’s been an incredible blessing for all of us. The last thing on our minds would be to enter a competition like this but our manager convinced us that it would be a lot of fun. Sure enough, as always, she was right. Win or Lose, we’re having a blast and look forward to the next time we meet.
Take care,
So I just signed on to this darling blog for the first time and discovered some lovely things people are saying about me
Just to clarify:
John M – I don’t know what’s so pretentious about 7 BPM. I knew it was faster than 5, slower than 10, so I estimated somewhere in the middle which would naturally be between 7-8. Point of the matter is, they played the song fast enough for their singer to lose his breath and pitch. And while I completely understand that many people have no idea how to gauge tempos, I also know that Sunday night Dreamcather audience is filled with many music professionals and I respect them as much as (I hope) they respect me. There’re tons of us out there who do in fact know the sound of very specific tempos. I for example, have a very good sense of where 60, 90, and 120 BPM are. When you have solid reference points like that, it’s simple to figure out the rest. It’s similar to string players, always knowing exactly where A is, or trumpet players who have Bb engraved in their heads, etc.
And when I made my comment about Berklee, in case you weren’t listening, I prefaced it with “I’m a bastard.”
All us Berklee alum already know we’re stuck up snobs. You didn’t have to tell us, but gee thanks!
Larry Luther -
Maybe Chris Lea did pick up a Tenor sax and that’s what you saw, but the solo in “Signed, Sealed, Delivered” was most definitely played on an Alto. And please, don’t call me honey.
Namaste,
AC
LOL, the first thing I thought when I read that post and saw “honey” was, “Uh-oh, she’s not gonna like that!”
Wow Alex, thanks for your compliments too!
Hello Alicia! Welcome to the blog! Been waiting to see if you are going to step into the mud! Stay with us, because I know you can take it! Plus… I’m sure Ed and DP are welcoming some of the heat being taken off them!
Ed… too early in the a.m. to comment on you and DP, but perhaps later today. Take care of your lizards.
~~Peace
This is Fred from Funky Pox,
I want to congratulate The Untouchables and wish them well in the semi-finals. I met several of the guys backstage and they are as gracious and kind as they are talented. In fact, all of the performers I was able to meet backstage were genuinely cool people. In a cynical world, filled with angry twits with an agenda, it reminded me of why I play music and why I prefer to hang out with musicians. An artistic ‘Semper Fi’ to you, my musical brothers and sisters!
I also want to thank the Funky Pox Nation for such a strong turn out. Any band would be envious of such dedicated fans who support them in their endeavors. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your friendship and support. You guys are the best.
Hey David, back-atcha bro! it was great seeing you do your thing up there and wish you and your band much success. I think the room “got it” and you did awesome. Message to the members of the audience. I think the judging, by it’s very nature, HAS TO BE on the critical side, and any excessive antagonism aimed at the judges is actually somewhat inappropriate and unproductive. Instead of heckling, get on as a judge next year, if you can do better. These people stepped up, give them some credit. I think the “bitches” comment while in and of itself, perhaps somewhat inappropriate, was UNDERSTANDABLY a response TO and in context WITH a fairly noxious tone that had developed in the room. So, my comment actually goes both ways and I should have included that when I first mentioned it Edwin, so that covers both sides of it. My point is, if you did not like the guitar playing during someones set, would you boo them after the song was over? No? Give the judges the same respect. It’s their JOB to be honest from their viewpoint, not yours. The process does not provide that the decibel level of your boo’s to out weight the findings of the judges, so what’s the point? And in Alicia’s defense, she prefaced her comments up front that she was going to be very direct, but she did it in a very very diplomatic way. I thought she was “untouchable” in that regard. If the judges had been “soft” they would have been ripped apart for being spineless, so really, there is no pleasing everyone. That’s not why they are there, it’s not a popularity contest.
My congratulations go out to the Untouchables, VERY strong set.
They’re judges, not cheerleaders. Enough said I think.
I will take a jab at the webmaster of the website though. One of the perks of the competition should be driving some traffic the band websites. Since there are still no links posted here’s what I found for the coming week:
http://www.electricwasteband.com/
http://www.mcfunkband.com/
http://www.myspace.com/fireflybandsandiego
http://www.myspace.com/withabibleandagun
http://www.myspace.com/washingmatilda
I looks like it should be another interesting week.
Monty,
I posted links for the bands, so my comment is awaiting moderation.
Colleen, Re: the scoring system, you asked me to reread your post, so I did, and this is exactly what you said…
“…Not in the middle of this contest! Aren’t all bands supposed to be on a level “playing field”? If you change the scoring “mid-stream” aren’t you opening up a new conspiracy theory??? Come on Ed… you are the one who so loudly stated above that you judges are judging fairly and without bias! Now you want to “alter” the scoring? Who do you have coming up that you want to insure???? huh?????”
So, i’m not really sure what it was you think I misunderstood. It seems to me that you blatantly are accusing me of not “judging fairly and without bias” and that I might have some band coming up that I “want to insure.”
If I blasted you over these comments it’s because I consider them offensive. You are questioning my, and 2 of my good friends (Dave and Alicia’s) integrity.
I expect this from the other nimwits who shout, “Conspiracy, conspiracy!” every time their favorite band doesn’t advance, but coming from you – someone I also consider a friend – well, I just thought you knew me a little better than that.
My attempt to tinker with how the judges value their scores so they are more consistent between the judges is THE VERY OPPOSITE of bias. The fact that I seek greater consistency does not translate into seeking greater bias. I do not understand anyone who objects to this. I do not understand anybody who would object me openly talking about correcting this. But mostly, I do not understand anyone who would accuse me and my fellow judges of being liars and sellouts without even a shred of evidence to support it. Those of you who maintain this belief can take a long walk off a short sewage pier.
Having been a participant in this competition, I think there should be two different contests here: one for “cover bands” who do a variety of artists (showing versatility, musical skill, interpretation, and expertise in building a cohesive set), and “tribute bands” who are clearly imitating an already-established band (“duplication”, to show how well they can recreate a bands look/sound/style). The former allows the artists to express their own style of performing cover songs, the latter allows the artists to show how well they can imitate – these are apples and organges, and deserve separate criteria for judging. We lost to Detroit Underground, and they admitedly rocked the house (but what do you expect from a band that has been together fr 15 years and has a full horn section!) But it did seem odd to pit them against bands such as Alice and the Cooper Gang who were obviously a “tribute band.” Viejas could milk more out of this competition to separate the genres and hold two separate contests. The bands work hard for this and should not be pitted against “oranges” or bananas, or cumquats!
Give them each the space they deserve.
Hi Nancy, welcome to the blog
You sure do have a ton of food references, I’m hungry now!
We’ve actually had a lot of discussion here about the differences between these bands and the different types of challenges they face and how to judge that. I have to agree with Ed though when we say that we like the diversity and interesting aspects of tribute bands and impersonator bands. They are all cover bands and we’d have no right to exclude them from a cover band competition.
I think you would have the same issue even if you focused only on tribute bands. Someone would be asking “how could you compare a Bon jovi tribute band to a Frank Sinatra Tribute band, you should have more specific genres!”
Nest thing you know we’d be down to watching five Frank Sinatras at the “Frank Sinatra Cover Band Contest” and Five Bon Jovis at the “Bon Jovi Tribute Band Contest” There would be no audience and I wouldn’t blame people for not coming.
The diversity of bands has been beneficial to the bands backstage as well. How else would you get a Motley Crue Guitarist to hang out with an Enya violinist? I’ve met so many interesting musicians that I would have never seen due to this competition. The value of networking and “hangout” factor has been commented on often on the blog and I sometimes wish I wasn’t a judge so I could go back there and do some of my own BSing.
God forbid I should go say Hi to some guys I’ve worked with, there’d a be a public outcry of conspiracy and favoritism. In fact, every week I’ve seen at least one person I’ve worked with in my own band. In most of those cases, I would say the musicians are more worried about the opposite of favoritism
they have nothing to worry about though.
We as judges are constantly discussing how to be impartial and fair to a diverse group of artists and we like the challenge.
Hey Nancy of Haute Flash, Welcome to the board. I’m afraid, however, I must respectfully disagree. One of the things that’s exciting about this event is that you have all these different styles of cover bands going up there and competing against each other. It’s like the early days of the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship, the event we based our name on) when they would pit fighters of different styles against each other like, say, a Sumo Wrestler versus a Kick Boxer, or a Jujitsu warrior agasint as street fighter. It was fantastic.
Also, I think you underestimate the judges ability to rank, say, a lucious, sweet, ripe, dripping yummy orange against an apple that’s got a few worms sticking their heads out of it.
Jesus Christ! That’s it. I am playijng to a click track from now on!
I know you are probably kidding but I wanted to make a comment about this anyway. Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not criticizing you; but, instead of the click track or the backing track, musicians should just practice an appropriate amount. It’s no secret that we currently live in a world of instantaneous gratification. We have to be above that. Nobody seems to practice enough and then they wonder why their performance wasn’t flawless. Max Roach never got as good as he is by using electronic implementations to keep him on time. He practiced constantly. Mozart didn’t like to practice but his father was always on him, keeping him on it constantly.
What is an appropriate amount you ask?
I’ll tell you a story and you can decide:
I once did a gig in Reno for a week at the Peppermill Casino and it was cool cause all of us (musicians) had separate rooms. Every morning I would get up and read for a bit and then try to get the guys out of their rooms to go to breakfast or swim or something like that.
Chris Mees and Kacey Evans would never leave their hotel rooms, not even for the buffet! Here we are in this luxury resort, pools and buffets, all free; and they have their instruments set up in the room, playing for HOURS and HOURS, writing and practicing even in a hotel room. Then we would go do a four or five hour show each night. I figure most guys I play with practice at least 8 hours a day, not including actual gigs. As a vocalist I’m practicing constantly too; but, I’m lucky in that I can take my instrument with me everywhere. This dedication to the art and instrument is what make the difference between Joe the guy who plays guitar and “Joe the Guitarist.”
Chris Mees was a relative latecomer to the Bass and now he plays with some of the best Jazz ensembles in NYC. Kacey is up in Seattle where he has several bands and a very successful career as a pianist and singer. He and I still play together whenever I’m up there.
Daniel Jackson, one of San Diego’s most prolific saxophonists who is respected by every Jazz musician in town and has played with or hung out with nearly anyone who is anyone in Jazz will tell you, when asked what’s he’s doing, “just trying to get good at this horn, man.”
So there you have it:
Practice, humility, rinse, repeat.
DP
Dave- You are right. I would have been with you at the Pool and the buffet. The difference is that I would have insisted that the other guys stay in thier rooms and practice! We would have had a blast and those guys would have made us look good. So, I want to thank you for that story. I will make damn sure that my band practices like crazy so that they don’t rush the song in the future. I humbly appologize for them making me speed up!
Perhaps all the bands’ websites should be posted, including weeks 1-3? Inquiring fans want to know.
Perhaps I should do a mirror website as I did last year? (which became the official website when I offered it to Jason) It was a lot of work to gather the links/bios and pics though… let me know if there is any interest in seeing one.
This is just a simple listing and a work in progress, but here’s what I’ve put together so far:
http://monstersofrockband.com/ultimate-music-challenge-3-lineup/
Tom, I will be using your link to help me construct the mirror site. Actually it’s up now but I have not put in the pics/bios/links yet.
Definitely interested!
btw, does anyone know yet who the 5th band on the 24th will be?
DAve, these things are not up to me. From what I understand, they already declined any outside help with the site, not sure why, but, that’s out of my jurisdiction. Regardless, thanks for your generous offer to help again.
e.
Ed… I most humbly appologize for the way I posted that blog! It was NEVER meant to suggest that you and the other judges are trying to do anything that is not COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY ABOVE BOARD! If I thought you or DP or Alicia were doing that, I would shout foul from the stage at the Dreamcatcher! And you know I would do that!!
What I was trying to say and obviously failed miserably, was that any changing of the scoring system could be construed by some to be subterfuge to change the contest. As a statistician I can see how changing the scoring to a 1 – 5 point scale or any other scale you wish to use would not effect the previous winners in any way. Just so long as all three judges are using the same system. Because as you and others have stated, the slate is wiped clean each week.
That said, you must agree with me that some people who do not understand statistics might not understand that the early bands who were judged on a 1 – 10 scale are not effected by subsequent bands being judged on a 1 – 5 scale. SOME PEOPLE want to find ANYTHING to prove that this is a rigged competition! So why change anything and give them that amunition? Yes their preceived amunition may be just blanks, but that may not stop their beliefs. That was all I was saying!!! Once again…
LET IT BE KNOWN TO ALL WHO ARE LISTENING AND MAY GIVE A S*#$, THAT I, COLLEEN OF THE BLOG, DO NOT BELIEVE THE JUDGES ARE TRYING TO RIG THIS COMPETITION NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT EDWIN DECKER… OR ALICIA CHAMPION… OR DAVID PATRONE HAVE ANY PERSONAL AGENDA IN THIS CONTEST!!!
FURTHERMORE… I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY MISUNDERSTANDING THAT MAY HAVE PRECIPITATED IN MY BLOG ENTRY OF “May 5, 2009 at 7:53 am” MY WORDING WAS POOR, RUSHED AND MIS-SPOKEN!
Ed, I’m truly, truly sorry for not being more clear. No offense was intended. I hope this blog will clear things up.
~~Peace! (please?)
It depends on what your definition of “is” is….
Your apology is accepted Colleen, and I apologize for jumping off the handle a bit. This whole conspiracy thing, it just gets irritating after a while because of what is really being alleged underneath the allegations, which is that the judges have been bought.
I do see your point about giving ammunition to the conspiracy theorists though. However, you are not fully understanding what I was proposing to Dave and Alicia.
I am not desiring to change the scoring from 1-10, to a 1-5 system. I am not desiring to change the “system” at all. What I want to do is come to an agreement about what the weight of each numeral is WITHIN the 1-10 system.
For instance, what I realized this week, after posting the judges scores was that, to Dave and Alicia, a ranking of 7 means something different than a 7 score means to me. Dave and Alicia are operating on a 1-10 scale that identifies 5 as an average score, and 7 as a good score. To me, I’m using the school grading system that puts 7 (or .70 percentile) as an average score.
What I suggested was, that we still retain the 1-10 score system, but that we get on the same page as to the values of our scores. What I think will end up happening, since I was the maverick in all this, is that we will revert to the Dave/Alicia values, which is to say, 1-3 is poor, 4-6, average, 7-8, very good etc.
Do you see what I’m saying?
love and kisses
I think I scared away DantheMusicFan.
Come back Dan, I’m sorry if I was too mean, come back. coooome bacccccck!
Thank you Ed. I truly feel bad that anything I had said may cause anyone to think there is a conspiracy.
I like the idea of the Dave/Alicia values. It’s a good plan. Still gives leeway to different “degrees” of poor, average and very good,yet still places the “value” on the same plane.
Now… can we forget about the scoring and get back to the fact that The Untouchables were the best band of the night?!?
Lunch break is over, so I’ll have to come back tonight.
Oh… and apologizes to DP and Alicia too… You know I love you guys!!
~~Peace
Numerically it makes no difference whether we do anything different, since each week is in a vaccuum. One week we could go on a scale from 1-10 and the next week we could change it to Apples and bananas. It’s all about proportion.
There IS a factor with our different approaches to value though. If I give a 7 all the time for a great performance and ed gives a 9 and Alicia gives a 9 that means that my vote only accounts for 7 out of 25 points where Ed or Alicia’s scores account for 9 respectively.
If I really dig a band and give them an 8 versus a 7, it makes less of an impact on total score than if Ed gives them a 9.5 vs an 8.5
So, if Ed’s scores are always between 6-9.5 and mine are usually between 4 and 9 then my numbers will have less of a percentage of the total score. At first, this may seem like I have less influence over the outcome.
However, it’s actually the opposite. If the difference between Ed’s good band and Ed’s great band is only two points and the difference between my scores is five points then I have a greater impact on the outcome of total score SO, I wanted to clear this up so that one judge’s opinion didn’t overpower the others. So far this hasn’t been an issue because we’ve all pretty much agreed with the ranking of the bands; however, it could be an issue later on and that’s why I don’t want people to look at our scores from past weeks and compare them to scores from future weeks and somehow come to the conclusion that they are relevant to each other.
Just because I give the winning band in week 1 a total score of 77.5 and I give the winning band in Week 4 a total score of 80.5 doesn’t mean that you can compare those scores and conclude that the band in week 4 is better than the one in week 1 in my opinion. They are completely unrelated to each other. Each week’s scores are only in relation to the other four scores from that week.
I would also refrain from looking at the numbers as some kind of “Score” based on 100 being perfect. We are simply using these numbers to delineate five bands, not to give some kind of “rating” or “grade”
Forget the numbers, they mean nothing except to place 1-5 in order.
well said Dave
I agree and am mostly interested in each judges ranking of the bands, their critiques and the meter reading. However, the scores do give us an idea of how close the race is on a given night.
At this point I would like to use this blog to shamelessly plug a show I have tonight, and every Wednesday, between 6-9pm. It’s called Team Trivia Plus and is a really fun, interactive high-tech trivia challenge at 710 Beach Club in Pacific Beach (710 Garnett Avenue). We do general trivia, video trivia, audio trivia – drinks and prizes awarded for best team name, perfect rounds, and, a gift certificate for the winners of the challenge. Holler here if you want more info
Oh wait!! That’s today? I thought it was Yesterday… Hmm, I’ll try to make it down from LA bro. I want to spank some Trivia Ass!!!
DUDE!!! You have to come. End of story.
Any other takers?
Yeah except that means I have to leave at 4 and I’m here to tell you… She will not approve
Lemme work the magic though…
I would like everybody to know that, while I honestly don’t remember saying “bitches” (though it now seems that I did) I can assure you it was in the spirit of fun, and aimed at all genders, not just women. I do not use that word toward women, ever. Only, as a general, joke-insult kind of way, toward all genders, and sometimes as term of endearment, as in…
“Wottup bitches!”
In fact, I did not even know the gender of the hecklers.
Edwin, it’s all good bro-ski. I think it would be funny if you started out every sentence of your critique next week with “listen bitches……..” JUST KIDDING. -out.
that’s not a bad idea. Although, perhaps I will refrain from addressing the live crowd as “bitches” and just do it on the blog. From here on in, I will begin all my blog posts with, “Bitches,”
such as, “Bitches, I think you’re all doing a wonderful job coming in here and making this blog a lively, interactive meeting place. Thanks Bitches.
The Bitch
I have to stand up for Ed on this one…(ow! ow!). I don’t recall hearing anybody sayng “bitches”. Believe me… had I heard Ed saying that, I was within reach and he would have HEARD from me BIG time!
On a few other topics… Oh! Hey Nancy! Good to hear from you! Can’t wait til I can come listen to HF play again!… and I too have to respectfully disagree with you about separating cover from tribute bands. It is corn and green beans, but mixing together can make for a palatable evening for all.
I agreed with all three judges (ow! ow!) on their picks for the evening. UT was first, Baytown second, Diamond third, Funky Pox fourth and Politik fifth. Note that I didn’t say “last”. The last place ones are those who didn’t even make it to the prelim rounds.
Best entertainer of the evening goes to FPs drummer. He was SO FUN to watch!! I think he was the one who had the most fun on stage of all the bands!
Re. the person who said that all the tables were waving the table candles? Well…. no… not ALL… not even most. I know… I looked around to see who was joining me and it was some, but most definately not all. But… does it really matter???
Diamond was entertaining, but although he sounded very close to Neil but really did not match him in the looks catagory. Loved the song choices and he brought back fond memories. Thank you. Post on this blog the next time you guys are playing around town!
Re. changing the DB as being a part of the scoring… leave it in! It doesn’t weigh that much (usually) and it gives the audience a chance to participate in the contest. When Good Mojo played last year, they packed the dance floor, had a very loud crowd of fans, yet didn’t make it past the first round. But MOR had fewer fans on the floor in their first round, yet made it to the finals. At the finals the DB reading made a big difference for MOR. So the DB can help, hurt, or not make any difference at all. But the important factor is that it gets people into the lounge and that is good for all… just like Ed said (ow! ow!).
Tom … thanks for putting the links on here. It certainly will make it easier to look them up before next Sunday. Don’t know why Viejas won’t do it. Same as I don’t understand why they make us stand outside instead of opening the doors earlier or even on time!
Ed — hope you had fun tonight. It sounds like a blast! Especially the “drinks” part of it. But PB is a bit far for this east county lady to drive on a work night. Hope DP showed up.
Well that’s it for me for now… I hope I was not too unkind this time because it really is all about….
~~Peace!
I was sitting close to Ed and saw and heard him say ‘bitches’, and it was obviously spoken in a spirit of jest, the crowd was groaning and deserved some flagrant comment on their bad behavior. It all adds up to another great contest and fun for all, gosh, I know I am a bitch sometimes too. I sure would like to see the list of who appled for the contest BEFORE the deadline and see if viejas adds bands that were in that group to the empty spots, I feel that would be a very fair way to fill in the blanks. I wonder if the untouchables were registered before the deadline? and if they were, why were they not in the first round to begin with? these and other questions may never be answered, but i still had a mighty fine time sunday night, and I look forward to more as the weeks go on. I will say this too, I may not agree with the judges all the time, but I cannot see how any of these three strong-minded individuals could be swayed in their convictions by ANY outside influence. they also appear to be well versed in the business and as objective as a body could be in this type of contest. and where the hell was the spotlight on the vocalists last sunday when they stepped up to do a piece of solo work? the lighting crew definately dropped THAT ball. I also think the FOH guy could ride those faders a little better, just my humble opinion, FOR YOU TO POOP ON!
Speaking of which, I just got the word from Viejas that The Corvelles will replace the Electric Waste Band who had to drop out this week.
Bigtoe will replace the Baja Bugs on May 17
We’re also considering some very cool UMC T-Shirts. What do you guys think about that? Is that something you would be interested in? Comments?
DP
I don’t know how that got posted as a daughter comment BUT what is cool is you can post your your responses here by replying to this message
Hmmmm…..pay out $$$ to BUY a T-shirt to give FREE advertisement to Viejas’ UMC while they make us stand in a line out in the casino waiting for the doors to open LATE. Give FREE advertisment for a company that doesn’t have enough respect for it’s clients to list the bands on the web site or open doors on time…..Hmmmm…. no. Nothing against the contest or the employees who make it fun. But as Aretha said…R E S P E C T!!
I updated the page with those two replacement bands and added all the links I could find here: http://monstersofrockband.com/ultimate-music-challenge-3-lineup/
Apples, oranges, cover, tributes. It’s all the same. The contest is judged on who does the best at what they do.
Viejas owns the contest, and they can do whatever they want, No matter ho much we bands and musicians complain about contest deadlines, or what’s fair, it is what it is.
Last year Detroit Underground was added to the contest after the deadline. They were added to the week we were playing. If they had not been added, we would have taken the night (check the scores from week 5 last year). We, (Haute Flash), would have made it into the semi finals. It would have been a huge thing for us, as we were a new band, and needed the publicity, gigs, and ego boost. It would have been a big deal for women musicians in general. Wah wah wah call the Wambulance.
We made friends, got a few gigs out of it, put on our big girl panties and got over it. We even made friends with DU.
I think it’s fair to say that there is always going to be parts in any contest that are not fair. DU is a better band than HF. But, I can say without any reservations, (no pun), I played a clean contest. I did my best, got a great review from Ed, and the other judges, and I hold my head up high. In the future, if we play the contest again, if I am not happy with the politics, I will pull out, and explain my reasons here on the blog. But, needless to say, I do plan on requesting a spot in next year’s competition.
Sharon good for you !! Go for it. I wonder if there is some kind of waiting list you could get on if any other bands drop out?
Alicia, OK, I apologize for the “honey” remark, however the only sax being played was a tenor.
And to all you other people commenting, the school is the Berklee School of Music not the Berkley School of 420.
OFFICIAL UMC NEWS:
The Corvelles will replace the Electric Waste Band who had to drop out.
Big Toe will replace the Baja Bugs on may 17.
Website will be updated tomorrow.
There are a few more changes to the lineup and they’ll be posted on our new band lineup page which should be up by the end of today in a spectacular, easy-to-read and clickable table
Alrighty then, I made it a little more “readable” and “clickable”.
Thank you DP.
Thank you Tom
Thank you Ed
I appreciate you keeping us up-to-date with the bands. It feels very R E S P E C T F U L!
You can now see the new band lineup table in the “About the bands” section of the Blog
http://ultimatemusicchallenge3.wordpress.com/about-the-bands/
I hope you like it, the bastard took me all day!
DP
What up Bitchaas!! HAHAHA! Jk. I was just reading through these blogs and thought that was funny. Anyways, Wow! It’s cool to see everyone excited and supporting eachother. I recall reading some of last years blog and it got kinda ugly. =/ Anyways, I see that Tom made a page for all of the bands info, thank you SOOO much! That was really nice of you. =) That’s all that I really wanted to say. Nothing much of importance coming from me. But anyways, Good luck everyone! See you all soon And ConGRATS Mikey (Untouchables!!!) and everyone else that’s won so far! =)
OK If there is a waiting list, please add us to it. If you want the all new Haute Flash, call me, e mail me, send a pigeon, whatever. I have a better band than before, and we are ready to ROCK!
Check out the website! http://www.hauteflash.biz
Bitches, the bands, the links, the dates are now posted on the blog. Look to the right of the home page, where it says About, and click on “About the Bands.”
Kudos to that Bitch Dave Patrone for building it.
Thanks Dave!!!! =)
I won’t finish the mirror site since it would be redundant. the UMC websters are inept.
Dave M. ….. Truer words were never spoken! Geeze!! Is it really that hard??? Thanks for your work.
It’s not hard, it just takes time. Patrone and Tom are ept.
That is awesome!! I’ve never been called “ept” before but I like it!
I’m going to put it on my business cards:
David Patrone
Ept
(877) PATRONE
It would be centered of course…
Bitches, Thanks so much for everyone who offered to help with the website.
However, at this point I would like to respectfully comment about the negative remarks toward the UMC website and the lack of “eptness” that many seem to think the webmaster exudes.
I don’t know if any of you have noticed this, but there’s been this thing that’s been in the news lately, something about an economic meltdown. Something about hard times for all industries, across the board, including the entertainment biz, which is really hurting.
Personally, and I”m not saying this to be a company man (I am not affiliated with Viejas, rather an outside contractor) but it takes a lot of money, time and effort to maintain a website. And now, with Jason gone, Casey pretty much has to do everything himself and he is slammed.
This whole production takes an amazing amount of man hours and I find it sad how so many choose to focus on the small negatives rather than the large positives. Show me another music competition that gives out 32 thousand dollars in prizes (that’s cash prizes, not some schwag-ass coupons for Barnes and Noble). Show me another music competition that pays for a running, interactive blog on which they allow everyone to talk shit about them on. Show me another music competition that can boast one of the awesomeist venues in San Diego county. Really bitches, you should be ashamed.
King Bitch
Decker
Biotches, I hope I wasn’t rude with any comments I made. I did volunteer my services. When it wasn’t excepted I built a page anyway on our site.
um… I was just kidding. Kind of a play on your words posted elsewhere. Plus I like to egg on Colleen. ha ha, jk. you may delete that comment now.
Your statement…”It’s not hard, it just takes time.” Oh… so many ways I could go with thet statement…
But I’ll be kind!
A simple “that’s what she said” works in this case.
Casey,
You know I love you. Like a baby love his blanket. Like a politician loves his picture in the paper. Like a Les Paul love a Marshall stack.
I know Dave, I wasn’t really busting on you, I just felt it was time to come to the defense of the staff.
Hello all, singer (or whatever the judges choose to refer to me as) for Politik here:
Couple o’things
First off, congrats to the Untouchables. We were loading are stuff in the back and were jammin to those sweet grooves you were layin out so handily.
Second, I want to defend us, because honestly, who doesn’t like defending themselves? This entire blog is pretty much the judges defending themselves, which I have been massively entertained by. I was very aware of when I was off pitch, I do have a pretty good ear. Problem was, I have never tried to sing after running a mile, which is pretty much how I felt during Viva. Since that was our first real show, I didn’t really know what to expect in terms of running out of breath because of the energy I was putting out there. Something I get to work on! I will now be the crazy guy running around my neighborhood singing obnoxiously (and it would appear off-key) loud with a big grin on his face. Like it was mentioned, me and Mike (bass) have only been in this project for 2 weeks, and we did all we could considering. Ok enough of that.
My girlfriend thought we did awesome, and wanted me after, real bad… so take that Judges!
As to the judges comments. You seem to give a critique of the good and bad of the other bands, while you all but ignored the good aspects of us as a tribute band. I know the band played really well behind me, and I know I put out more energy than anyone else that took the stage, unfortunately probably too much which cost my singing.
I think it is also worth noting that I had to be a good 10 years younger than anyone else I saw up there. I mean, 2 years ago I wouldn’t have been allowed IN Dreamcatcher, so for that I really want to thank everyone involved for gracing me with that opportunity. The sound and lighting guys were just incredible, the space was fantastic, and the stage was top notches. I look forward to hopefully performing at places like that, except without the three people at the table taking notes with lowered eyebrows…
By the way, sorry for any grammatical errors. Its four am.
Your girlfriend wanted you? Well, I hope she wants you. An impressive statement would be, “The Judges thought we did awesome, and wanted me after, real bad… so take that!”
well I wasn’t really trying to impress anyone in that statement, the fact that my girlfriend, who already wants me, wanted me is where the humor (or lack there of) sits…
But still, if you saw her, you would completely forget about the judges like I did, she is gorgeous!
From the looks of your post it took you till Friday morning to get around to thinking of us.
She must have kept you VERY busy. Hang on to that one…
Dear Pitchy (and please, if you would use another name, I would REALLY appreciate not addressing you as such
I’m so sorry you felt us judges “ignored the good aspects” of you as a tribute band. To refresh your memory – before I said a single criticism, I told you how lovely your outfits and stage setup were and that I appreciated how much time you took in studying Chris Martin’s stage persona and all his little ‘isms. I commended the band on nailing the arrangements flawlessly, and complimented your use of dynamics. My only criticisms were over the tempo and pitch in “Viva,” and that I would like to see more of your own energy and essence shine through all of that Coldplay studying.
It’s a shame you missed the good stuff, but I suppose that is human nature. I do hope to see you guys return. You’ve got a great foundation to build upon.
Hi Alicia,
There is nothing wrong with addressing me as pitchy, but please complete my name by finishing with “McPitcherton”
I mentioned that you did positively comment in my original post, I did not forget! I don’t really mind all criticisms, I just felt like my bandmates deserved a little more credit than they got as all, I thought all 4 played fantastically, and I felt like they got overlooked.
Nothing you guys said about me was a surprise (ok, when Ed decided that we decided to make a coldplay tribute band while listening to “Yellow” in the car was a surprising comment, and surprisingly off base), but I heard the same thing you heard. Every note I missed I listened to myself miss, and it was rather frustrating. I was so just so out of breath. Workin on it!
I appreciated your comments though and don’t think that they got overlooked
I think the majority of the bands have been told that they were pitchy, so welcome to the club.
“pitchy” = The Freebird of Judges criticisms
We strive to do better next time pitchistacly.
Pitchistically is what I think you meant…
I learned breath control by calling cadence in the Marines so I think your idea of running around the block and singing like crazy is a great one.
It’s always more fun with a platoon of Marines but then, that has it’s own set of complications.
Monsters of Rock will be at Second Wind Navajo this weekend if you bitches want to come out and party.
http://monstersofrockband.com/gig-calendar/
She did at that Pitchy. I can confirm. And Patrone said some nice stuff too. Still, I like
you’reyour attitude in general, and, unlike Alicia, I think your screen name is hilarious and hope you keep it.Some things to keep in mind.
1. Girlfriends are notoriously bad at judging their
boyfriend’sboyfriends’ band (unlessyouryou’re dating Alicia)2. You are not in a position to determine what kind of energy you were putting out. That is something for the audience to decide and, energy-wise, you were up and down.
3. I thought you and your band
waswere very good, just not as good as the others.4. Factoring in that you have only been in the band 2 weeks, that was an exceptional performance
5. My eyebrows are permanently lowered so don’t take it personally.
Bitchy McBitcherton
Ed, I can’t believe you’re a writer and you typed “you’re” instead of your… That’s the equivalent of literary pitchiness
Your nuts! <—- mistake in grammer? or a inappropriate (and awkward) post
My nuts?
What’s a grammer? Is that how you measure your drugs for your customers?
ahhh, whaddya want from me? I was hungover. At least I’m man enough to drink to excess so that I can write badly.
Don’t make me post the “How to Write Good” essay by Frank Visco
Oh yeah, and Dave, if you insist on being the grammar Nazi around here, you could’ve least caught all my mistakes. Go back and see what I fixed.
If you’re still drinking, then you haven’t drank in excess enough
Wouldn’t “boyfriends’ band” indicate that girlfriends tend to sleep with several members of the same band?
Not that that’s unusual, mind you…
I DID notice that you capitalized the M on line 5 without annotating it though…
No, it’s because I already used the plural “girlfriends,” who would then have plural boyfriends.
as for noticing the cap M, wow dude, you are amazing. You really need to start drinking again.
yeah but you said “their” boyfriend
so if each girlfriend has a boyfriend and it’s “their” boyfriend, then each instance of boyfriend is singular as is the band. Wouldn’t it be “their boyfriend’s band” UNLESS he was in multiple bands? But you didn’t pluralize bands now did you?
Maybe you should have pluralized bands too; but, what if the girlfriend was good at evaluating one of the bands he was in but not the other; like, if he was in a classical ensemble and an 80s’ tribute band and she was into 80s’ music but didn’t know Mahler from Mendelssohn. Huh? what then?
There are a lot of reasons why singers lose their breath on stage and almost all of them have to do with inexperience. Fear, nervousness and uncertainty will exhaust you even if you are standing still and learning phrasing and timing of breaths and diaphragm control while practicing your dancing will help to alleviate that. Performing in front of three judges will exacerbate these issues. The same things that affect your breathing will also affect your pitch perception; however, experience will probably solve those issues. More practice with the band will familiarize you with cues which will help to identify your intervals and once you have that, you won’t even need a monitor to stay on pitch (as long as the band doesn’t do something to throw you)
How To Write Good (
by Frank L. Visco)
My several years in the word game have learnt me several rules:
1. Avoid alliteration. Always.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. Avoid cliches like the plague.
4. Employ the vernacular.
5. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
6. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
7. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
8. Contractions aren’t necessary.
9. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
10. One should never generalize.
11. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said: “I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”
12. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
13. Don’t be redundant; don’t more use words than necessary; it’s highly superfluous.
14. Profanity sucks.
15. Be more or less specific.
16. Understatement is always best.
17. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
18. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
20. The passive voice is to be avoided.
21. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
22. Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
23. Who needs rhetorical questions?
Thank you for you’re suggestions, your good.
“Hey” is Pitchy even a real word?
Or is it just something the judges of “Idol”
came up with?
This definition is addressed on the “Musical Terminology” page in Dave’s Corner
It is a term I have heard used by many musicians long before “Idol” came out; although, I believe it to be a colloquialism.
Sorry DP. It was a joke/question? I’ve heard the term used before[pitchy]
but when you say “Musical Terminology” does that mean the word can be
found in the dictionary? I guess i could look? but what fun is there in that? Maybe Idol did’nt come up with “Pitchy” but they sure helped
make us sick of hearing it. Maybe they need to read your page and come up
with someother word that describes Singing Wrong?
Hi Chick… welcome back.
Yes, Yes, I’ve been meaning to mention that -
WELCOME BACK CHICK!!!
Pitchy could also refer to the chick in the Clay Colton Band that ran around the stage with devil horns and a pitchfork. You did admit that those chicks were hot.
“The only thing better than one hot chick in a band, is two hot chicks in a band”!
Yes, she was a little pitchy bitchy!
Were Baaaaack. Like to congradulate Rollin the Stones, MOR, My personal favorites and the Untouchbles for a job well done. Whats Going On With the noumber of Bands on May 24th? We can always add to our set listif needed? Oh yes by the way.. ACG will be posting our set list on the blog one week befor each show. See you all on May 24th..
Posting your setlist before the show eh Bruce? Interesting strategy. I think I like it.
“Welcome to my nightmare
I think you’re gonna liiiike it
I think you’re gonna feel, right at home
here.”
Go Alice!
Hey “Alice”! Can’t wait to see what you guys bring to the contest this year! Will be waiting for your set list. I think that’s a great idea.
~~Peace
Happy Mother’s Day to “The Mother”, Shaaron, “W” (because you are raising the biggest kid I know) and all you other moms out there. Hope all you mothers have a GREAT DAY!
~~Peace!
No Suprises this year ….LOL…just let them try and stop me
ALICE…….
Alice —
BRING IT!!
While talking about the Johnny Cash band on the way home from UMC a Cold Play song came on the radio. I pondered how a Johnny Cash style band would do covering Cold Play songs? They could call themselves “Cold Cash”…
Thank you, Colleen! I had a very nice Mother’s Day! I’ve had about 300 kids in my foster home, and the phone just didn’t stop ringing! I got the warm fuzzies!
“Thanks for welcoming me back Pitches”
I mean “Pals”